Interview with Arch Bishop Emeritus Peter Yariyork Jatau.

ARCH BISHOP (EMERITUS) PETER YARIYOK JATAU.

 INTERVIEW WITH THE FIRST NORTHERN NIGERIAN CATHOLIC ARCH BISHOP.

His retirement home is a duplex. Apart from a few domestic staff,nothing will give a first time visitor an inkling that the resident of the building located a few meters from st Anns nursery,primary and secondary school  Kakuri, Kaduna south local government of Kaduna state is such a great and distinguished Nigerian.

Though retired, the Arch Bishop is of sound mind and body .One is left to wonder why governments past and present seem to leave untapped the wisdom and experience of individuals like the Arch Bishop emeritus. 'This treasure trove should not be confined to his retirement home' will definitely be your conclusion after enjoying this interview.

Q: Tell us about your childhood-where were you born?

Ans: I was born in a village called Marsa in the present Marsa district of Zangon Kataf local government of Kaduna state. Roughly, my birth took place... (Because there were no recording of birth and death and so on... But looking back at events that took place around the time of my birth and people born around the same time, I will say it will be around 1932.

Q: How many siblings did you have and what were the names of your father and mother?

Ans: My father was called Jatau and my mother was called Brenke. That time you know polygamy was in vogue and the more women one had, the more the kind of leadership was given to him in the community and of course ,if you had many women, the chances are that you will have many children and that will make you a great farmer when you have many to work on the farm with you. So that was what was happening in those days, like I said, my father was called Jatau and my mother was called Brenke and that time there was nothing like Christianity in the area.

Q: Can you remember the kind of man your father was-his personality and also that of your mother?

Ans: My father was a great farmer He was a person that was respected in the community because of his hardwork and even when we were growing up at home, he was somebody that was very peaceful in nature, he loved peace and wanted people to be in peace. My mother also was a very quite type of woman a good house wife I will say, as I said it was polygamy-meaning my father had many wives and at a time I remember there were about four of them and they were living very peacefully. There was no fighting and so on and that was a very good way of teaching and instructing their children. So life at that time was very comfortable.

Q: From your mother's side how many children did she give birth to?

Ans:We were altogether six. She gave birth to more but many died shortly after birth, we would have been up to ten or even more but those of us that survived were about six. Some have died now-in fact from my mothers side we are only two left now; myself and a junior sister of mine.

Q:At that time western education was not common. How did you manage to get western education?

Ans: At that time there was no western education at all-there were no schools around but when the missionaries came, it was then that we heard about some thing called  Western education,because when they came, they wanted us to know the catchism: In the Catholic Church, the catchism contains in a nutshell, the teaching of Christ as handed down to the Apostles and to the present day Church leaders. So one was in a better condition if you are able to read and write so that when you are taught something in the classroom, you can come back home and read through the catchism and see what you were taught.

That also applied to many other subjects, it was not only religious knowledge but any other thing that we were taught in the primary school. So I will say, as far as I am aware now, Western education started around 1942 in my village through the instrumentality of what we used to call catechists. The catechists prepare people that were well trained in religion in the Catholic faith and they used to help the missionary Priest to prepare those who were ready to receive baptism because you don't become a Catholic without being baptised, you can be in the Church for donkey years but if  you are not baptised you are not a Christian-you are not a Catholic .So the job of those catechist was to prepare candidates for baptism and when the candidates were ready to be baptized then the Missionary Priest will come there and baptize them.

Q:Can you remember the names of some of the Catchists or Missionaries that impacted your life positively at that time?

Ans: Very well- let me start with the Missionaries: The very first Missionary that came to my village was called Father Gernon, an Irish Priest. He was in the military. He served in the first and second world wars. He was a Chaplain in the military. When the war was over, he came and was stationed in Kafanchan and from Kafanchan he worked through many villages up to my village. So he was the first Missionary Priest that I met.

Then after him came Father Peter Bennet also another Irish Priest; infact all the Priests in the north at that time were Irish-most of them, a few from other places- so Father Peter Bennett was in Kafanchan around 1942.In 1943  I started going to school . In those days I was preparing for baptism,he was the one that examined us and when we were ready to be baptised, he was the one that baptised me in December 1943.

Then there were other priests that came after him; Father Oliver Smith who was instrumental to my going to the Seminary to become a Catholic Priest. There are so many of them but these are the few I can recall.

Q: At that time what was the reaction to the coming of the Missionaries in Marsa and environes?

Ans: They were very much welcomed. Infact before the coming of the Catholic Missionaries, the SIM( Sudan interior mission) Missionaries where there at least ten years in my village before the coming of the Catholic Missionaries. When the Catholic Missionaries came they were very much welcomed especially when children will go to play with them and they will teach them a few words of English. That was very enticing to parents and parents were happy to see the missionaries.

Q: Your grace, when you enrolled into the Catechism class did you envisage your being a Priest in future?

Ans: There was no thought of me becoming even a teacher not to talk of being a Priest because at that time we did not know that a black man could be a Priest. It was Missionaries we saw going around the area trying to get people to embrace the Catholic faith. So there was no question of me thinking I will become a Priest.

I became aware of becoming a Priest much much later, infact toward the end of my primary school.education-that will be around 1948/49.

Q:What made you decide to pursue that line-Priesthood?

Ans:When I was in the primary school, first of all I started in Hausa, because at that time the Colonial powers did not want northerners to know much about education. They wanted northerners to know how to read and write a bit, maybe a bit of English so that they can interpret for the Colonial D.O s as they used to call them but then, when I started going to school where English was the medium of instruction, I was the only northerner in the class from when I started in standard 3 up to standard 6.

Now I became a mission boy. That means I lived with the missionaries, helping in their houses, cleaning their rooms,making their beds and any other sort of work they wanted me to do and at the same time, I was going to school.

Those of us who used to serve mass- man servants.I was the only non Igbo amongst my fellow manservants then. So when the Priest that was in charge of us; teaching us English language and Christian religious knowledge, saw that we were about to finish our primary school education, he asked us a year before then what we would like to do when we finish our primary education? Now the Igbo boys that were with me said they will like to be Priests and... Since we were the same, I also said that I wanted to be a Priest.

Q: What was the reaction of your family?

Ans: They didn't know what being a Priest really means, they didn't know but even when they realised that I will be a Catholic Priest like the priests they see ,they didn't bother because my father was just happy that his son was getting higher and higher in the area of education and of course since it was polygamy and I had many brothers,it didn't bother him that I will not marry. Neither did it bother my mother.

Q: How will you compare the standard of education then and now?

Ans: The standard of education then was very high. It is nothing compared to what is obtainable now. I remember the kind of English we were able to speak or write even under graduates in their 1st and 2nd year in University wouldn't know that kind of English and that will apply also to arithmetic.

In the primary school we didn't do what we call Maths today because Maths included arithmetic, geography, and algebra, so it was only arithmetic. The truth is that the standard then was very high compared to what you see today. At that time, by the time you reach standard  4,5,and 6,one will speak good English and write good English and correct grammar correct spelling and so on but that is not obtainable now even with students who are in their first or second year in University from my communication with such students and letters I receive from them.

Q:Let's look at your journey into Priesthood, where there times when you felt like retracing your steps?

Ans:It was not smooth, in the sense that by the time I went to the minor seminary, there was not a single seminary in the north so we had to go to Ibadan  and travelling from Kafanchan to Ibadan is a very long journey by train. But what I am sure of is that when God wants you to do something, he will give you all the qualities that are required to make you succeed if you cooperate.

So it was not easy in the sense that as a young boy, you leave an area where you are comfortable and used to, the kind of food you eat, the people you meet? To go to another place altogether and meet other people that you didn't know? So it wasn't easy from that point of view, and then in the minor seminary there were rules to be obeyed. If you do not observe the rules,you will be asked to leave the seminary but as I said, if God wants somebody to be something he gives you all the necessary means to achieve his objective.

So I will think that, because of that, even though things were difficult,one was able to bear with the difficulties we went through and thanks to God, one succeeded  in becoming a Priest. Along the line, there were so many we started with, they didn't succeed in becoming Priests for one reason or the other some because they didn't obey the rules or some because they didn't do well in their studies and some decided -no this kind of life, I can not go into this kind of life, so they left on their own.

Q:Being the only Northerner at the minor seminary did you suffer from things like tribalism?

Ans:There was actually one northerner who went there many years before me-from Jos, a Berom man. But he didn't stay long, he left, when he left I think I was the next person to go from the north, yes I was certainly the next person to go. My classmates were Igbos, yorubas, people from the present Delta and Edo States and so on but we got mixed together and because of the kind of training we got, we regarded ourselves as brothers there was no question of tribalism whatsoever-in fact it was not there.

Q: Am I right to say you are the first northern Nigerian Arch Bishop of the Catholic church?

Ans:let me first say,I am the first Nigerian north of the rivers Niger and Benue to be a Catholic Priest. I am also  the first Northerner to be an Arch Bishop.

Q: How does that make you feel today knowing that you are the one who opened the flood gates for many others?

Ans: It is Gods calling, if God calls you he wants you to do something for him. So it was God that called me and gave me the strength and wisdom and means to be able to do what I was able to do from the time I was ordained a Priest to the time I became an Arch Bishop and retired in 2007.So all the achievements actually is not due to me the credit goes to God.

God uses human beings as instruments just as you use a knife to cut something, the knife on its own can not cut a thing but you use your hand to cut what you want to cut .In the same way, God can use any human being to do what he wants to be done and that is what happened in my case.

Q: Before you retired in 2007 there were many communal clashes that took place in Kaduna State,what role did you play in ensuring peace prevails at that time?

Ans: It is true that there were many clashes between Christians and Muslims in Kaduna State while I was Arch Bishop. The first clash was in1987.That was when there was a misunderstanding between Christian and Muslim Students in the College of Education Kafanchan. That was the first crisis.

When it started I was attending a meeting with fellow Bishops in Lagos. While I was having the meeting, a policeman came and told me that somebody wanted to see me outside, so I went out to see the person and I was told that the Inspector General of Police wanted to see me. So I followed them. The I.G. told me that there was trouble in Kaduna and that the Governor of the State wanted to see me. So we came with a police helicopter to Kaduna. As soon as we arrived we went straight to the Government House and I met the late Grand Khadi of Kaduna State Sheikh Abubakar Mahmud Gumi and two of us went to the radio house to make  an announcement. We stated that this thing is not a fight between Christians and Muslims and that it was just a misunderstanding and therefore people should not try to fight each other and see it as some sort of war. I think that the announcement we made and people seeing us together, a Christian leader and a Muslim leader talking together helped to some extent to minimise what would have been a much worse situation.

Q: What is your advice to our current leaders today on how to create harmony and prevent further clashes?

Ans:I just mentioned the first crisis many others followed that led to many Christians leaving places like Rigasa and Tudun wada in particular down to areas in the southern part of the metropolis. Muslims also moved. That was a terrible thing that happened. Well we did what we could especially when Makarfi ,Armed Makarfi became Governor of Kaduna State. He was a good friend of mine.He used to come to me and I used to go to him.Before him the same happened with Jaafaru Isa;our last military administrator. He was a good friend of mine too. At that time he used to come with Makarfi but Makarfi will wait in the car, he alone would come into my sitting room and go back. So when Makarfi became Governor, the friendship continued

I think because of that, it was easy to discuss with him and find ways in which both Christians and Muslims could cooperate and live together.

As far as I am aware and know, Christians will never be the first to throw a stone. But there came a time when they said enough is enough because when you push a dog or an animal and its finding a way to escape, it could turn back on you. So the Christians said no we are not going to sit down or run so they fought back. The unfortunate result of that was the almost total separation of Christians from muslims.

A lot of Muslims have come to me especially from tudunwada to express sadness about what happened- I had a Cousin that used to live there that I often visit sometimes late in the night and there was no fear.

What I am saying is, to live in peace, we have to respect one another.Christians have to respect the Muslims, the Muslims have to respect the Christians. There should not be Muslims forcing Christians to be Muslims or Christians forcing Muslims to be Christians. Religion is a free thing. So everyone should be free to chose the religion of their choice.So if there is this kind of respect there will be peace.

But some people look at themselves as if they were placed in a certain position by God to keep on ruling it is not possible, that kind of mentality should not exist any longer because with education we have rights. We are running the Democratic government now and people are educated. When you are educated you know your rights, you know how to pursue your rights, and so if we respect one another's rights,you respect my rights, I respect your rights, there will be proper mutual understanding that will make for mutual peace and cooperation.

Q: Many educational institutions in the past owned by the Catholic church were taken over by government. Looking at the falling standard of education that you mentioned earlier would you say it was a good decision?

Ans: It was not at all a good decision and if the government will be truthful, they will know that it was a bad decision. I am sure it was a really bad decision. What happened was that... Asika...I think he was known as Asika. He was in charge of eastern Nigeria, at that time, the northern ers were very afraid that Christianity was progressing and spreading because of our educational system. Which is true because I remember when we went to school, we were baptised, meaning that we were not Christians but eventually we became baptised. So practically, most of the children that went to Catholic schools ended up being Catholics like in our case through Catholic schools so the Catholic schools were very important and the standard as I said,was very high.. But they realised then that we especially in Southern Kaduna were becoming very educated and I think they were frightened and they thought that a way of making that not to continue was to take over the schools and then they can do what ever they want, so I think that made them to deceive Gowon who was then the Head of State to say okay any state that was willing to take over the schools, they were free to do so.

When that happened, Asika in the Eastern region was the first to take over the Catholic schools. He was himself a Christian- an Anglican I think. The next State to follow was the north central state; that is present day Kaduna and katsina States and then the rest of the northern States took over both secondary and primary. They didn't mean well. I think they thought that by taking over and mixing children; they might be able to get Christians to convert to Islam... That didn't happen. What really happened was that they bastardized the standard because at the time we were running the schools our boys and girls in our secondary schools can't be seen going out without permission from the principal or one of the teachers in charge-you wont see them day or night. And so with lack of discipline, standards were bound to fall .

Q:Would you advocate for these schools to be returned?

Ans: Certainly! Actually we have been asking, even before I retired, there was no Governor Military or Civilian that I didn't ask for our schools to be returned to us. Unfortunately I didn't get the cooperation of others like ECWA and Anglican; these are the two main Christian bodies that owned primary and secondary schools.

The only state in the north that did not take over our schools was Kano state.Audu Bako, who was the first military Governor of Kano state ;when I visited him after my ordination as Arch Bishop in December 1972- I went to pay him a courtesy call ,we were sitting in the evening, we were chatting, he brought beer we were drinking and we chatted, he was telling me how he went through a Catholic school and then along the line he said as long as he remained the governor of Kano state, nobody will touch our schools and  he kept his word and infact uptill today those schools; St Louis for girls and St Thomas for Boys are still owned by the Catholic church, .although a few things happened afterwards.

Q:What advice would you want to give the Buhari administration?

Ans:I used to say when Buhari was military Head of State with Idiagbon, if he had been allowed to remain in power as a military leader for about three years he would have changed Nigeria because of the way things were going although some people were saying that he was too harsh and they had some things against him and so on. Talking about corruption, discipline, and security, I will say if they had remained in power for three years he would have changed Nigeria.

Now he is a civilian President. You see we have the executive, the judiciary and the legislature- he does not control everything so things are not the same. Now he has to do things in consultation with the National assembly he can not do things as he did as a military leader.

There are two areas he is doing well; curbing insecurity-you know Boko haram and so on. As I see it ours as Church leaders is to pray.

Our leaders should ensure that in appointments, distribution of amenities, they don't exclude any particular part of  the country be fair to all that is why I used to say Makarfi was fair to us in Kaduna state- both north and south. For we in the south look at the roads he constructed, Chieftaincies he created and so on. He was fair-see any leader who is fair is sure to do well though not everybody will accept him. So that is what we expect from Buhari.

Q:How will you assess Governor Nasiru Ahmed El-Rufai Governor of Kaduna State.

Ans: I am not too sure. You people are outside so you know what he has achieved. If you let me know what he has done, then I will say he is doing well but I know that something like the question of feeding children in the school? That is not the right thing, the schools are dilapidated, the floors,the doors in most of the schools are battered so it is best to put those things in order and equip them properly.

That is the difference between what the government is doing and what we the Church are doing, our schools were properly equipped.

What we put in our schools, especially the primary schools will make the pupils excited and eager to learn, like we used to have practising schools go there you'd see different paintings, animals and so on, that will excite Children and make them ask what is this, what is that? That is the way they learn.

So the priority for me is to repair the schools both primary and secondary schools, secondly, put qualified teachers. If you put unqualified teachers, they can not teach. The blind can not lead the blind. There are so many boys and girls that have finished our Colleges of education, these are the ones supposed to teach in primary schools but if you go to some of our primary schools you see ordinary school leavers teaching as it were, the blind leading the blind so what do you expect from that?

Q:Thank you your grace.

Ans: You are welcome.